TBI working at last

[Johnboy]

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Shows what sheltered life I lead. :?

Yes, looks like I'd like to get to that!

[Guest]

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Hi,

My car is up and running and I am very happy with the result. I have tried both the Holley and Weber and they can't compare with the refinement of the Patton system.

The carbs were indeed better than the Strombergs but still needed to warm up etc on startup. I hated the carbon deposits out the exhaust and the general lack of refinement, hot starting etc.

Port injection and ignition control is more complicated and expensive than I wanted so this is a nice middle step. Patton machine has done lots of Jags and TR6's but my car was the first Stag done. Obviously there were a few small modifications along the way. It is necessary to use 3/8 fuel line (plastic or metal) as the OEM line is to small to handle the flow. Using the smaller lines and rubber hose was my fault and caused me some initial problems as the pressure (14psi) fluctuated with the smaller return line. Pressure needs to be constant to work properly. Threading the plastic line underneath takes an hour or so.

I put the ECU under the passenger seat. Once again as a new project ,we estimated the length of the wiring harness. It was about 10-12 inches too long but not an issue. The components are GM and very reliable. The next hardest item was taking off the exhaust downpipe to put in the O2 sensor. Drill a hole in the appropriate spot and weld in the nut. After that, the rest is fairly simple. Install the carb inserts, connect the fuel hoses, connect the MAP sensor, temp sensor and TPS sensor. The temp sensor should be in an area with good water flow. I have the electric water pump so my sensor position would be different. Adjust the fuel regulator and then snap onall the labeled wires (connectors) from the harness. Thats about it. Prior to starting, you adjust the Throttle position sensor either manually or with a laptop. If I can do that, anyone can! I still have to do a rolling test with a laptop and set up the idle control solenoid but that will have to wait until I free up some time.

All in all, I think the price is reasonable and Rick is very easy to work with, both patient and helpful. In a cost comparison, it should be compared to other FI systems. Carbs are less expensive but crude. This kit includes everything and leaves you with an engine compartment that looks factory stock. Good service, good price and a nice result.

george

[V Mad]

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kryten wrote:

But you are mixing currencies and what you get for your money here..... for $1500 now read £980 and then it looks a bit bit different.

Add to that an almost standard looking underbonnet appearance, adaptability and tunability probably far in excess of a standard carburetter I think it represents fantastic value.....

Russ, yes I was mixing currencies, but usually USA $ prices end up costing similar in GBP by the time you have paid the shipping and duties so I would think you pay much more than £980. The Mr Gasket Low riders in USA are about £50, UK price well over £40 now.

As for under bonnet appearance, I suppose we are all different when it comes to aesthetics. I like a clean uncluttered look myself, but traditional carb.

Anyway, enjoy

[Dieter H. Marschall]

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Hello John,

So you made it! Congratulations! It was interesting to see your project in an early phase.

Kind regards, Dieter.

[Stag Andy]

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Funnily enough ive been working on something similar myself,but without the spacers between the carb tops and the carb bodies,had hoped to offer it as a kit in the future. But by the time im done with it i think the market will be filled.In my opinion $1500 is an excellent price.Please lets us all know how the fuel economy does...........very very interested

[tonypy1]

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Looks awesome, very interested in the effect on mpg. Could it be done more cheaply with a megasquirt ecu and does this kit not need a crank position sensor?

[Guest]

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The kit does not have a crank position sensor just a connection to coil and distributor. It works with a GM ECU . I'm not sure another ECU would give any benefits with the added costs of wiring etc. Given the fact that the fuel ratio is so much better controlled, the fuel consumption with certainly improve. Most of the TR6's that have been converted show a significant improvement. Check out the Feb 2009 issue of Hemmings Sports & exotic car for a review.

[Klaus Schlueter]

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Johnboy wrote:

The initial ECU setup was a bit of a guess as Affordable Fuel Injection, who provide the fuel injection side of the kit, were new to Stags. Once working the set up was done by driving around with a laptop plugged in to collect data from the ECU, email the log to AFI who then returned an updated programme for the ECU. After several of these cycles to update the ECU it is now running better than I ever had it running on the old Carbs.be an improvement there as well.

Hi Johnboy

do you think the programme is now working on its optimum or do you expect further improvements? And is your current programme status now available for all Patton (Stag) customers?

Klaus

[Banny]

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http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/..._feature1.html

[Johnboy]

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Hi,

First it's great to see the interest - I thought I might be a bit on my own for this one...

Klaus - included in the price of the kit are 3 (and possibly more if needed) update cycles to get the programming correct. I have to say at this point how helpful Norman at AFI was inanalysing theECU data, thensuggestingchanges and following up with an updated programme for the chip.I was able to go for a drive, email the data and then later that evening get an update so I could burn to chip and try again. I would expect my 'final' programme to be a starting point for others but each engine is different and I'm sure AFI will find improvements on an individual basis.

George - I agree it's a great system and works 'off the shelf'. If you haven't done your calibration runs yet then I'm sure you still have improvements to look forward to.

The control is via MAP (vacuum) sensor, O2 sensor, Throttle position, temperatureand RPM. Crank position is not necessary as it isinjecting fuelcontinuously, as a carb would, but in a more accurate and controlled manner. (At least I think that's what it does.)

I'll certainly feed back mpg in a week or two when I've got some extra miles on the clock, but once again it's not something I was measuring before the change so I can't say whet difference it's made. If I don't measure the mpg then I don't worry about how much the petrol is costing.

[templar]

hello i wanted to ask George H how he got on with the stag tbi patton kit and also I would like to know if anybody has any further comments and info on the patton machine tbi for triumph stag preferably in the uk....i would like to get this kit for mine and wanted to ask if anyone in uk have the kit and would like advice and to check how the kit works. many thanks and kind regards Joe

[TR5convalescent]

Sorry to hijack this thread but does anyone have any more to add? I am considering this route myself as a means of reducing my fuel consumption from epic to merely heroic!

[Dave L]

Not sure how this system will affect your fuel consumption but I expect it will be better than running the standard carbs. I am presently restoring another stag and have installed the Patton TBI system but not yet tested it. I have also purchased the distributor conversion. Unfortunately this restoration stalled aproximately a year ago but it looks as if it will get started again next month.

Dave l
Toronto

[TR5convalescent]

Thanks, Dave. It seems that the major issue is the manifold. On that basis, given the cost of tooling for new inlet manifold and the height restriction under the bonnet, the Patton system seems the way to go..

Full on efi and management for the 6 cylinder engines seems to be about £4000. - £5000 plus vat. On that basis Patton seems like a good value compromise at around £1500.

[Pete]

Tempted - but don't have the skills.