Article in the club magazine does not work

[Bakdraft007]

To bakdraft007.
Have been comparing your pictures with mine.
One thing is clear, I put the jumper removed from S5 ON THE OPEN CONTACTS (empty jumper, see picture below) .
These can be used as a trigger via a momentary switch, but are now connected permanently
I did not mention this in the article, should have, my fault. This is the only difference I can see so far.
Just to make certain, if you were to see a minute, try to use my wiring layout with the jumper fitted and see if all now works.
.
Picture 3 board layout.jpg

I mentioned in the first post already I tried

• S5 with or without Jumper gives no change to the operation
• Jumpering the empty Jumper seemed to completely disable the relay.. although maybe because I expected the same action I maybe did not wait long enough? The next time I can try will be next weekend... It could be that...

That said the new way it works is much simpler to wire.

Dave

[Goldstar]

Is this somewhat more straightforward ?

https://www.socforum.com/forum/forum...es-for-a-fiver

I think the part (UKC 7096) is no longer available Jeff - Julian started a run on them.. If anyone finds one in their toolbox please let me know

[hvtr]

Just saw the amended reply from bakdraft007, thank you.

When you retest, please check the settings of the s1, s2 and s4 jumpers and the position of the potmeter to have an idea of the time you will have to wait before the relay clicks. Potmeter fully CCW sets the shortest time within the range set by S1, S2 and S4.

My settings are S4 in, S2 in the 1 position and S1 in the 0 position, with the potmeter app 1/4 turn CW which gives me an app 6 seconds delay.




Cheers

Henri

[Bakdraft007]

Just saw the amended reply from bakdraft007, thank you.

When you retest, please check the settings of the s1, s2 and s4 jumpers and the position of the potmeter to have an idea of the time you will have to wait before the relay clicks. Potmeter fully CCW sets the shortest time within the range set by S1, S2 and S4.

My settings are S4 in, S2 in the 1 position and S1 in the 0 position, with the potmeter app 1/4 turn CW which gives me an app 6 seconds delay.




Cheers

Henri

Hi Henri,

The jumpers and POT settings were exactly as you described in the article and, indeed, I got 6 seconds delay!

And in case the others missed it, I messaged Henri, to thank him for his time and efforts to come up with this mod as I would not have thought of this or implemented it, without his time and effort, and I am very grateful for every forum member when they take the time to help us all.

Dave

[Robin Searle]

I ordered the time delay relay, and I had been in touch with Henri, he advised me to first remove the S5 terminal and place it instead in the spare contacts just below and to the right of the green and red LED lights. This I did and it worked the first time, one other tip is to turn the timer [white cross in blue box] anti-clockwise to the stop then turn it back 1/4 turn, then it will all work 100% the first time.


Below is copied from US Stag Club Forum

Robin

My low fuel light problem has now been fixed and it works a dream. The only fitting instruction that I changed was fitting the module at 6.0clock under the gas tank breather pipe, that way if for some reason the trunk floor caved in then the module will be protected by the overflow/breather pipe.

One less flashing light to worry about, plus it keeps my wife from telling me to stop at the next gas station as "the gas tank is showing empty"

Robin

]To All, this is important to make the thing work

The article says to remove jumper S5 but does not specifically state you have to reinstall this on the two empty contacts just below and to the right of the green and red LED.

If you DO NOT do this, the modification will not work.

Cheers

Henri[ Van Triest.

[Bakdraft007]

I ordered the time delay relay, and I had been in touch with Henri, he advised me to first remove the S5 terminal and place it instead in the spare contacts just below and to the right of the green and red LED lights. T
The article says to remove jumper S5 but does not specifically state you have to reinstall this on the two empty contacts just below and to the right of the green and red LED.

Hi Robin,
Although Henri suggests jumpering the unjumpered pins and wiring it his way (and that will work) I suggest that you should not and instead leave it unjumpered and wire it my way for the following very important reason.

Wiring it my way has the added advantage that if either:

• The board fails
• The Relay fails
• The fuse blows
• You loose the 12v (bad connection)

With my wiring then everything reverts back to normal... the low fuel sender will continue to work as before even with no power to the board... yes.. it will go back to flashing BUT everything still works . This means you will still get a warning you are running low on fuel. In other words..its fail safe

However, with Henri's wiring if the above happens everything is dead. You get no warning at all, could run out of fuel, and you need to do something to restore functionality.

I know which I would rather have.

[SteveD]

I got the one StagJonno pointed out

20200630_141408.jpg

20200630_141523.jpg

It's simpler than the one shown previously and I'm unsure of the wiring. The new revised wiring diagram shows the +ve fused connection going to the terminal marked --ve , this doesn't sound correct to me. Any clues how to wire up this one would be very gratefully received.

Steve.

[hvtr]

High Steve,
This board is a simple timer using a 555 IC.
Please follow this link
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-5V-0-60-...-/191991027238
There is a photo of the timing diagram, this is a pure on delay and switches off after x seconds. We want the contact to hold.
However, try wiring it as bakdraft007 shows, it might still work. It will not work using my wiring.

[hvtr]

This is the same as described in the article in the magazine and will work with the backdraft007 wiring and my wiring
And it is only close to a fiver!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-De...wAAOSwI~5e-tw4

[marshman]

I can't see the functional difference between the 555 one posted by SteveD and the other one. The wiring is essentially the same - unless I have missed something.

Wire up as below:

1. +12v ignition supply to the + terminal
2. wire from tank sender to - terminal
3. link wire from - terminal to centre relay terminal
4. wire to low fuel light connect to NC contact, lower left in SteveD picture
5. turn preset to approx 15% of rotation to get 6 second delay - don't know if it is clockwise or anti clockwise as I don't have one to try.

Quick sketch of wiring below.

PICT0469.JPG

Circuit operation. When the tank sender contacts close momentarily it completes the power supply circuit to the relay board, the relay is energised and switches, opening the NC (normally closed) contacts thus ensuring the Low Fuel light does not illuminate. The tank contacts then open again and power is removed, the relay contacts switch back but as there is no path to ground the fuel light remains off. Once the fuel level has dropped low enough so that the tank sender switch is on all the time - or on for longer than the relay delay - then the relay will switch back (afetr the set delay period) and the lamp will illuminate.


Me I prefer the flashing, makes fuel light bingo more fun and easier to play!

Roger

[SteveD]

Many thanks Roger, I'm just waiting for a fused link to arrive then I'll give it a go. What fuse rating is best?

Steve.

[DJT]

These are the instructions I received:

Delay Relay.pdf

[Bakdraft007]

Hi Everyone.

In essence there are two types of board:

1. A simple board that after a delay time operates a relay
2. A board that has two modes, the first as above #1 - mode A, the other being that on power up it immediately changes state then after a delay flips back - Mode B

So you have a board, which type is it?

• Does it have any jumpers... if not its a more simple type time delay wise, but could be most likely #1 or board 2 mode B. The time delay is probably limited to around 10 seconds (all thats needed) by a single potentiometer
• If it has multiple jumpers, you probably have the ability to adjust the time from seconds to hours. there also will be a jumper by the two power connectors that has no link. This sets the mode from either #A ( jumpered) to #B ( no jumper)

Either board will work equally well. BUT you only get the fail safe for the Board 2 Mode B or two clicks when in operation... see below

Which wiring?

The wiring I suggest will work for either board or either mode. The wiring in the article in the magazine will work for #1 or #2 Mode A but NOT mode B.

Which wiring is best?
For Board 1 and Board 2 Mode A there is no operational difference but my wiring is easier.
The advantage of my wiring for Board 2 Mode B is its fail safe. That is to say, if anything fails on the board or power, the light on the cluster reverts back to how it was before the change, you still have an indication of your tank. With Henri's wiring, if anything fails, the cluster will not indicate anything and you will have to intervene to get it to indicate your tank level. However, Henri's wiring does work just fine when all is well.

Which is easiest?

Henri's wiring requires you to work on two wires from the sender unit ( Green orange - bulb and black - Earth) My wiring requires you only to work on the Green orange.

How can I tell which board or mode I have?

If you have no jumpers you most likely have board #1. You will know this because when you put power to the board and set the Pot midway on power up there will be no sound for a delay then a SINGLE click after the delay

If you have board #2 in Mode A (jumpered) it will act like the above
If you have a board #2 in Mode B then on power up there will be an immediate click, followed after the delay by a second click.

What is the difference in wiring?

For my wiring:

Both Boards:

Section of the board with two screw contacts:
The power VCC comes either from an inline fuse going to either:
Mk1 - Purple Boot light, off the harness going to the fuel tank sender
Mk2 - Fuel Pump Positive - White/Green.

-Ve supply - Remove the Green orange spade from the fuel tank sender. The female wire we will use later. The male spade on the tank run a new wire from the tank to the -ve of the board 2nd screw.

The contacts - 3 screw terminals.

On all boards the centre screw is the 'common' connection. Run a small 3 inch wire from the centre screw connector to the -ve connector on the other side of the board as described above.

The two remaining screw connectors.

This is tricky to describe to those who are not sure. although if you get it wrong, just try it one way, if it does not work try it the other way,,, you will do no damage.

One contact is know s the normally closed contact. This means when the relay is not active these two contacts will still be made.
The other contact is know as normally open. This means that when the relay is not active, the contact is not joined,

• If you have Board 1 or Board 2 Mode A, you need to use Normally open contact
• If you have Board 2, Mode B then you need the opposite Normally closed contact.

Connect the female Green/orange wire you disconnected from the tank to the correct contact.

What happens?

If you have Board 1 or Board 2 Mode A, you need to use Normally open contact - on power up (caused by negative being applied to the board by the tank going low on fuel) the board puts a delay in then operates the relay which closes the normally open contact - providing negative to the bulb to light it.

If you have Board 2, Mode B then you need the opposite Normally closed contact - on power up (caused by negative being applied to the board by the tank going low on fuel) the board, immediately switches the relay from normally closed to the normally open contact - but nothing is connected to it - so nothing happens while the delay takes place. Then after the delay, the contact drops back to the normally closed contact allowing he bulb to light. With this mode as you can see the default position is to route the wires as they were originally made and so even with no power to the board.. you still have the original wiring present and so the bulb will behave as normal for any failure.

Which fuse should I use?

EDIT: reading the document supplied by DJT...thanks... I see that S5 link places the 12v to the centre pin of the contacts. This will explain why I was blowing fuses as I was trying S5 linked without knowing what it was for. This would have caused a short circuit. So I will try putting a 1A fuse back in and see how it goes.... as the document says circuit max draw is only 50mA! Remember with Board 2 Mode B, if the fuse does blow you still will have an operational circuit still.


I will try to make up diagrams for all types

Dave

[hvtr]

Hi Dave,
Just sent a message to Carl Fuss to have an erratum regarding the S5 jumper published in the next issue of our magazine
Also suggested it might be beneficial if you were to submit an article as a follow up highlighting your solution and the various models of the time delay relays usable.

[SteveD]

I've just installed the "el-cheapo" (£4.88) delay relay and it seems to be working fine. I used Roger's wiring diagram. Unfortunately my tank is almost full so I'll have to wait a while for a proper test. I hope I don't run out of petrol!

Thanks to everyone who helped make this work.

Steve.