Inner sill

[Adrian B]

Hi,i'm currently doing a home restoration on my stag and as always one job is leading to another,i've got the outer sill off to find the lower half and front of the inner sill in a pretty poor state,i have read in older reviews that a lot of replacement inner sills are quite a bad fit!Does anyone know which is the best one to go for(if there is a choice)otherwise i'll either cut a new one up to fit the area's in need or spend time making plates....also i have welded a strut across the door apeture and the "T"bar is in place,is this enough to stop it "bowing"as its not on a jig??thanks,Adrian

[Fortyfiver]

Hi Adrian I’m about to weld a strut across the door from the footwell but there’s loads of wax oil behind it did you have any issues with fire? Sorry it’s not an answer to your question but as I’m doing the same I’m waiting to read any replies you have with interest, I agree one job leads to another mine started as a simple rub down and re spray, now a sill and 3/4 rear wing!!!
Thanks Alan

[ramjam2005]

Hi Adrian
I found the same extensive corrosion when doing the O/S sill. I couldn't locate an inner sill at the time so decided to fabricate repair sections myself. As you'll see it has a combination of many contours so I made a number of templates, lots of folding, metal beating and fettling to get the shape and fit..AND if I recall the inner sill is a heavier gauge than the outer. You may also find the bottom of the A post has corroded too ( as I did).

As these inner sills play an integral part in the strength of the convertible shell I didn't do a butt weld at the joint, instead I lapped / joddled the new to old with a line of weld on both inner/outer edges. Also after ,as an added precaution (rightly or wrongly) I welded a small plate over the join on the cavity side as a further brace as its not going to be seen in the cavity once the outer sill goes on. All those "Cut n Shut" horror stories were in my mind and behind my logic here.

As the years progressed I sourced a N/S inner sill which I think was from Rimmers but yet to see how good a fit it is as nowhere near getting to doing the N/S. I intend to cut out the front end rot and take the same donor section from the new panel and follow the same welding approach as above. Removing the complete inner sill is MAJOR surgery left for the experts and a full supporting jig in my personal opinion.

Ray

[new to this]

Ive fitted an inner sill before , and if you think its a lot of work to get the outer sill off , the inner is much much harder , really the inner sill rust on the bottom edge and maybe the front end ,you would be much better to repair the bottom edge

It was a while ago now i bought my inner sill from Rimmers it was the early one , the groove/channel for the wiring was not deep enough and didnt fit by subframe mounts ,Rimmers changed it for the newer type , so if you buy an inner sill look for a deep wiring channel

Dave

P.s Do one side at a time i had the T -bar in place and braced the door opening , make any repairs on inner sill 1.5mm steel

[Adrian B]

Thanks for your replies,i have BL outer sill from rimmers,may get an inner to cut and weld where need!!Alan just make sure all your trim is out of the way,i purchased a few fire blankets to use as shields when welding and grinding and decent sized Co2 extinguisher for piece of mind !!

[Adrian B]

[ramjam2005]

Looking at your photo, majority of your bottom edge has rot, mine was limited to about 18" at the front end and only last few inches at the rear well before the bulge & captive nut. My main problem was the front closing angle where it meets the inner arch etc.
As Dave said, you'll get away with repairing lower edge with some folded / fabricated steel to get the double 90 degree bends as seen in many resto pics on here. The rear end is a lot easier to shape to match to where attaches to rear inner arch panel.

Thanks for the pointer on the loom channel Dave...need to check mine as think its an early Rimmer panel.

Ray

[ramjam2005]

One more small point to remember, when fitting outer sill. Dave will correct or confirm. The ridge running length of the outer sill should sit a few millimetres proud of the door bottom edge and lower rear panel from B post to rear arch

[Adrian B]

Thanks ramjam,interested to see your front floor pics,i was considering fitting a new floor panel,is it fairly straight forward ??

[mole42]

As Ray said above, it is worth remembering that the sill structure is a vital part of the strength of the shell. Also that the 'value engineers' at Triumph removed one of the layers of sill structure - the original cars had four sill panels, outer, inner and two strengthening pieces inside. Most restorations only replace the inner and outer sills and leave out the inner strengthener. It's also a good idea to replace the jacking point strengtheners!

[ramjam2005]

Thanks ramjam,interested to see your front floor pics,i was considering fitting a new floor panel,is it fairly straight forward ??

Its quite un-nerving as a hobby owner/restorer to attack your car with angle grinders and spot weld drills, chopping out the driver side floor AND rotted out-riggers leaving a gaping hole. In the whole process I was following the details in the Practical Classics Stag Restoration book.

I had to make some small repairs to remaining old floor - the joddled edge at the bottom of the footwell curve / bulkhead panel and again just near the seat runner end.

Regarding the floor repair panel itself, I think I also ordered these from Rimmers and whist the pressing initially looked good I did find that it didn't quite line up with the channel that runs along side of the gearbox tunnel ( tail end of the front chassis rails). I had to reshape it and flatten the end of some of the flutes using heat and panel beating to match the pressing angle so it sat flush and followed the lip of the chassis channel to get a good series of plug/button welds.See the pic of the panel prep'd before fitting.I test fitted everything "dry" before any welding which gave me the chance to scribe lines on the underside of the floor, panel along the outer edges of the out-riggers. This gave me a guide as to where I should drill a line of holes for plug welding to the outriggers ,replicating what was originally spot welded. The alternative is investing in a spot welder and a good collection of expensive arms to reach these various angles and areas.

I decided to weld in the out-riggers first then lay the floor panel on top by sliding it under the bottom of the repaired inner sill. This did mean i had to cut a shallow "C" at the two points on the edge of the floor panel where the out-riggers meet the inner sill ( in the production line assembly I assume these areas would have a 3 layer of metals - The inner sill, the floor lip then the ends of the out-riggers). Elsewhere I kept the right angle edge which should sit snuggly up against the corresponding right angle at the bottom of the inner sill.

I have a set of welding clamps with long reach arms which were fed through the circular hole in the middle of the panel and sandwiched other metal plates to spread the pressure. Alternatively if you could have a colleague to press down on the panel as you weld it helps.I started welding from the center outwards and trying not to build up too much localised heat.

[ramjam2005]

As Ray said above, it is worth remembering that the sill structure is a vital part of the strength of the shell. Also that the 'value engineers' at Triumph removed one of the layers of sill structure - the original cars had four sill panels, outer, inner and two strengthening pieces inside. Most restorations only replace the inner and outer sills and leave out the inner strengthener. It's also a good idea to replace the jacking point strengtheners!

Yes ...likewise I welded in new jacking point strengtheners to the outer sills before installing.

[Adrian B]

Thanks for your floor summery,very interesting,i think i will probably go for it and possibly have to do the front outrigger(previously bodged by the looks if it)!

[RogerS]

Did a lot of welding on a TR7 years back which had been wax oiled, was a nightmare, kept bursting into flame in concealed pockets. be careful and have an extinguisher to hand.

Roger s

[ramjam2005]

I'd recommend the following to anyone delving into body restoration for the first time..As well as the Practical Classics restoration book, I also bought the EJ WARD body repair DVD to see how the professionals do it and get an idea of the tasks ahead and whether I felt confident enough to tackle them I'm not a professional welder nor a metal fabricator , all self taught and practiced on scrap panels well before I even went near the Stag.

I'm going to do a complete body restoration so I'm fortunate enough to have the space to strip the car down to a just a bare body without any running gear or interior, plastics etc that could cause a fire ( nevertheless always got a fire extinguisher to hand !). This also removes a lot of the weight that could strain or deform the body when you start removing chunks of rusted panels out..I kept the front cross-member in place and the T bar to keep some rigidity. The body was well supported and levelled up across the front turrets and chassis rails, the underside chassis rails mid-way and the diff mounting points. I picked up some thick angle iron and small box section lentghs to form braces across the door apetures.

Hopefully, when I restart the project soon I'll post pics etc in the relevant forum.