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    More dead than a do-do..

    Went to start the car last night after a few weeks having not, and it was dead. Normally I disconnected the electrics but clearly forgot this time.

    Anyway I put the battery pack on but whatever has happened to the battery it couldn't complete the circuit and wouldn't register the battery. Normally there is a click and the or even a slight spark when the pack is connected. I tested the pack on another car and it was fine.

    So I guess the question is whether a battery can become so dead that it won't complete a circuit and if so should I even bother trying to charge it?

    I hadn't noticed an issue with the battery before. On the electrics side of things I think the radio isn't up to much and maybe this drained the life out of it.

    Cheers

    David

    #2
    Yes a battery can do that. Plate failure inside will cause complete and instant failure. No amount of charging will fix it

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by 73stagman View Post
      Yes a battery can do that. Plate failure inside will cause complete and instant failure. No amount of charging will fix it
      Yes agree it has happened to me more then once.
      Some say a pulse charger can rectify but I have my doubts
      Once you have built a ship everything else in life is easy

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for the update on that. ..I was beginning to think the car had been nuc'd. I'll order a new one. ..just the pleasure now of installation!
        David

        Comment


          #5
          yes happened to me too 1 day fine 2days on-kaput!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by David Lloyd View Post
            Went to start the car last night after a few weeks having not, and it was dead. Normally I disconnected the electrics but clearly forgot this time.

            Anyway I put the battery pack on but whatever has happened to the battery it couldn't complete the circuit and wouldn't register the battery. Normally there is a click and the or even a slight spark when the pack is connected. I tested the pack on another car and it was fine.

            So I guess the question is whether a battery can become so dead that it won't complete a circuit and if so should I even bother trying to charge it?

            I hadn't noticed an issue with the battery before. On the electrics side of things I think the radio isn't up to much and maybe this drained the life out of it.

            Cheers

            David
            If by battery pack you mean a charger then if it is a modern electronic one and the battery has been totally discharged then they do not tend to not be able to detect the battery. I think this is beacause the internal resistance of a battery increases when it is in a very discharged state and takes very little charging current, thus an electronic charger does not detect it. If you can get an old style charger and connect it up it should eventually charge the battery, it might take 48 hours or so but if the battery was ok before and you think that the car has discharged it you should be able to recover it. If a plate had shorted out then usually it just takes out one cell of the battery and in broad terms you end up with a 10v rather than 12v battery and the charger will still attempt to charge it.
            Roger
            White TV8 BW35 no mods and now a Dolly Sprint to keep it company
            So many cars, so little time!

            Comment


              #7
              Hi Roger
              The battery pack is one of those that you charge up to supplement the battery if it is flat...jump starting from it. There's not a hint of power anywhere from the car's battery but I will do a light bulb test on it anyway.

              Thanks for your thoughts on this, as you say it may be down to the internals of the pack as much as the battery itself.

              David

              Comment


                #8
                Hi David,

                I understand now what you mean by battery pack. The same reasoning still applies. Those battery packs are meant to supplement a "tired" battery or one that is not totally dead. If the battery was mine I would put it on a good old fashioned transformer based charger for 48 hours and see what happens. How old is the battery? My experience of batteries over the last 10 years or so is that they last a lot, lot longer than they used to. The oldest one I have "on the fleet" at the moment is in my wife's MX5, its the original and is now over 13 years old. Next is the one in my diesel Landy and that's over 7 years old. The one in the stag is about 5 years old and that has had one period last winter where it went totally flat as I left the radio on - it must have been like that for over a month but it still recovered with a long chage - though at the time my modern electronic "intelligent" charger wouldn't touch it - kept saying "fault" so I used my old antique one.

                Roger
                White TV8 BW35 no mods and now a Dolly Sprint to keep it company
                So many cars, so little time!

                Comment


                  #9
                  I recently had a battery in another car which did this. Connected it up to a good battery using jump leads for half an hour, then tried it again on the charger. It worked. The good battery had put enough power into the flat one for the charger to get excited......
                  Dave
                  1974 Mk2, ZF Auto, 3.45 Diff, Datsun Driveshafts. Stag owner/maintainer since 1989.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Just been out to the Stag, you guessed it-dead. Four year old Bosch S4, just out of warranty. Always used dis-connect when not in use and connected up to battery conditioner. Jumped it and it fired up, run for 1hr-still won't start on it's own, reads 11v before and after running. Just getting over paying out £120 for the Audi battery last week

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I always use a better conditioner on my bikes and cars when not in daily use. Never had an issue since

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bob Heritage View Post
                        Just been out to the Stag, you guessed it-dead. Four year old Bosch S4, just out of warranty. Always used dis-connect when not in use and connected up to battery conditioner. Jumped it and it fired up, run for 1hr-still won't start on it's own, reads 11v before and after running. Just getting over paying out £120 for the Audi battery last week
                        Originally posted by Bob Heritage View Post
                        Just been out to the Stag, you guessed it-dead. Four year old Bosch S4, just out of warranty. Always used dis-connect when not in use and connected up to battery conditioner. Jumped it and it fired up, run for 1hr-still won't start on it's own, reads 11v before and after running. Just getting over paying out £120 for the Audi battery last week
                        Forgive me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but I assume you checked that the alternator was actually charging, simply check the volts at the battery terminals with the engine running. To be honest it can take a lot longer than an hour to fully charge a totally flat battery. I have monitored the charge current into a totally flat car battery and even at 15 volts on the terminals less than half an amp is flowing for several hours. That means after an hour only around half an amp hour of capacity has been restored. Many people condemn batteries far too easily without exhausting all the possibilities or finding the root cause ofvthe problem.
                        Roger
                        White TV8 BW35 no mods and now a Dolly Sprint to keep it company
                        So many cars, so little time!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Got back to the car this evening and still power pack not registering. So attached jump lead from Stag to GT6 as suggested. Not even an interior light. Reset all the fuses. ...some are a bit corroded. After this took the jump leads off and back on again and saw the 1st sign of life...A tiny spark. Left the GT6 running for 10 mins and started the Stag successfully. Took her out for a drive. ..all okay except not enough reserve for the indicators...they tend to run slow anyway.
                          Once I parked up I turned off the ignition. There wasn't enough power obviously to turn her over but the battery had enough for the instrument panel.
                          I've left the car with the power pack connected. I may do this a few times leaving it overnight. No electric in the garage. Hopefully this will be enough so I can take her on a longer run next week.
                          Thanks for all the advice.
                          David

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Nobody has mentioned that most car batteries (lead acid) need to be kept fully charged, they deteriorate more quickly if they are allowed to discharge. This is obviously a problem for most of us who don't run our cars daily. I believe that every start will take about 20? minutes of driving to recharge, depending on variables such as charging system efficiency age of battery, ground connection etc. Personally I purchase rebuilt batteries from excide for about a third of the cost of regular batteries for general use, but the gel type for my bikes.
                            John

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I also have an 'intellegent' charger that needs some volts on the battery side for it to start working. A truely flat battery has no volts that side so the charger doesn't get going. Once going it's fine though, so a quick zap with a simple transformer/rectifier type gets some volts onto the battery and then the automatic charger works OK.

                              Car batteries certainly like to be used and don't like going into deep discharge. Sure fire way of shortening their life.

                              The Stag battery is likely to be 60-80 AHr so will need 60 A for 1 hour or 1 A for 60 hours to fully charge it, (or any other combination inbetween!). Although the alternator is good for 45A it will hardly ever put all this into the battery unless the latter is very flat, and then even not for long. The charging current is really defined by the battery (when it has a constant voltage across it) and tails off very quickly to just a few amps, so yes, after just one start, it can take some time to fully charge the battery again. However, we don't need a fully charged battery to start the car so it doesn't really matter! Just don't do lots of starts with very short runs inbetween. That's also not good for the engine!

                              Cheers,
                              Mike.
                              Mine since 1987. Finished a 20+ year rebuild in 2012. One of many Triumphs and a 1949 LandRover!

                              Comment

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