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    #16
    Originally posted by John Palk View Post
    Kevin, I think you may have to change the poly bushes back to stock? as binding could occur.

    John
    That's interesting, I was wondering why the website said the results are better with rubber bushes but was thinking it was just because the effects would be more noticeable.
    ZF 4 spd box, Datsun shafts, SS exhaust, 38DGMS weber 158.9bhp, BMW MC Tomcat seatssigpic

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      #17
      (sucking eggs caveat applies here!) My understanding of this link is that it forces the rear suspension arms to move in a precise arc, and to resist loads which might otherwise cause deformation of the suspension bushes. This will have much more of an effect with rubber bushes since they are usually softer than the PU. The harder the bushes, the less benefit there will be.

      Any deformation of the bushes will allow the suspension arms to move in/out under cornering loads, which results in movement of the drive shaft splines. When that load is removed, ie at the end of corner then any stiction (friction) in the splines (lock up) can cause a sudden release, known as the stag twitch.

      Exactly how this mod performs depends on the precise geometry of the link axis in relation to the axes or pivot points of the suspension. If the two axes are not precisely aligned, there will be a tendency for the link rod to apply forces as the car rolls, or rises and falls, which will be opposed by the bushes. The harder the bushes the more effect this will have on the feel of the suspension. I should think this adds a weird feel to the handling.

      IMO, if you have (firm) poly bushes, and greased splines there is no point in fitting this link mod.

      Kevin, if you have a vague feeliing in the handling there are many things that might have an effect, for example tyre pressures, front and rear toe-in, spring and shock absorber rates. It sounds like mild understeer to me.

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        #18
        Originally posted by V Mad View Post
        (sucking eggs caveat applies here!) My understanding of this link is that it forces the rear suspension arms to move in a precise arc, and to resist loads which might otherwise cause deformation of the suspension bushes. This will have much more of an effect with rubber bushes since they are usually softer than the PU. The harder the bushes, the less benefit there will be.

        Any deformation of the bushes will allow the suspension arms to move in/out under cornering loads, which results in movement of the drive shaft splines. When that load is removed, ie at the end of corner then any stiction (friction) in the splines (lock up) can cause a sudden release, known as the stag twitch.

        Exactly how this mod performs depends on the precise geometry of the link axis in relation to the axes or pivot points of the suspension. If the two axes are not precisely aligned, there will be a tendency for the link rod to apply forces as the car rolls, or rises and falls, which will be opposed by the bushes. The harder the bushes the more effect this will have on the feel of the suspension. I should think this adds a weird feel to the handling.

        IMO, if you have (firm) poly bushes, and greased splines there is no point in fitting this link mod.

        Kevin, if you have a vague feeliing in the handling there are many things that might have an effect, for example tyre pressures, front and rear toe-in, spring and shock absorber rates. It sounds like mild understeer to me.
        I'd tend to agree with you there Chris, i have yellow polly's and Datsun shafts, no twitch at all - oh, and the HRS lowering kit.
        Last edited by mike@thenook; 18th October 2012, 20:47. Reason: miss spelt
        Mike

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          #19
          I have the poly bushes and the HRS springs, but despite poly bushed diff mounts I am still getting movement on the diff mounts, I noticed the polishing on the paint when I was under there checking the drive shaft UJ's.
          This kit still puts the load into the diff mount.
          I might look at adding a washer to increase the tightness of the bushes this winter
          Neil
          Neil
          TV8, efi, fast road cams and home built manifolds. 246bhp 220lbft torque

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            #20
            The idea of the links is to prevent toe changes when accelerating and decelerating. The tendency when lifting off or braking is for the body to pull forward on any complaint bushings and to cause the rear wheels to splay out. This toe out can cause a tendency to oversteer and make the car less stable. The fact that the links also prevent excessive toe changes due to spline lock is a secondary benefit. If I remember correctly the clever thing with porsche's weissach axle was that an additional pivoting link actually induced toe in during braking and therefore increased rather than decreased stability throughout a corner.

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              #21
              Originally posted by John Palk View Post
              Ian, rear wheel steering? load = toe in?
              Yes in principle that is true. In principle it is doing the same thing as the Stag rear supension but the geometry is turned around so that when you get side loads the rear wheel steers the rear end in instead of out like om most cars. Also, as mentioned here, when braking, the rear wheels toe in instead of out. It is very noticeable iin the 928, especially with sticky tires. If I did not know better I would have said something was wrong, like when pushing the Stag, but it is just the suspension doing it's work. I know racers have "pinned" the 928 rear suspension because they did not like the way it acted (and probably overloaded the original design) but for regular driving it really can save you when you go to fast into a corner, get scared and lifts off/brakes....
              Kirsti & Ian in Norway
              1973 Stag Mk2 (ex-USA), Mallard Blue, TV8 engine, Manual O/D

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                #22
                I'm not very technical but I have this kit fitted to my stag,it is so much more controled now,rear trailing arms fitted with new rubber bushes before monarch kit fitted.its not a huge expense if your not happy with
                Keeny

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                  #23
                  I realize I am digging up a 6 year old post, but some criticisms over in the MG world made me think a little. Has the Monarch link been revisited understanding the Wsiaaach adaptation in the Porsche and RX-7?
                  Wondering why the kit is no longer available? Sold all they ever would? I kind of worry about the strength of the mounting to the arms. Probably moot for me as I am rebuilding my car as a touring car and try to finish my braking before corner entry, but always thinking. I figure the all new bushings and CV axles cover most of it.

                  OK, back to to the shop. Coffee ran out.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by tvrgeek View Post
                    I realize I am digging up a 6 year old post, but some criticisms over in the MG world made me think a little. Has the Monarch link been revisited understanding the Wsiaaach adaptation in the Porsche and RX-7?
                    Wondering why the kit is no longer available? Sold all they ever would? I kind of worry about the strength of the mounting to the arms. Probably moot for me as I am rebuilding my car as a touring car and try to finish my braking before corner entry, but always thinking. I figure the all new bushings and CV axles cover most of it.

                    OK, back to to the shop. Coffee ran out.
                    I think if you fit poly bushes and grease the drive shaft splins ,or fit the CV drive shafts and theres no need for the Monarch rear kit

                    Dave
                    73 mk 1/2 now gone to the dark side BLUE

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                      #25
                      Guess I got it half right. All new rubber, but have the CV axles. I actually don't like poly in a street car. Too stiff and too much of a maintenance issue. Of course, not stiff enough for race so I don't really see a use for poly anywhere. Others disagree of course.

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                        #26
                        Well guys, mine has. All polly" bushed, 3.45 diff with an Estate rear cover, new Quill bearing, CV ,axles, new outer bearing housings, UNC/UNF studs and a horizontal control link system I built myself. I am very pleased with the result but as all the changes happened at the same time I can't tell which contributed the most.

                        Cheers Ian A

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by tvrgeek View Post
                          Guess I got it half right. All new rubber, but have the CV axles. I actually don't like poly in a street car. Too stiff and too much of a maintenance issue. Of course, not stiff enough for race so I don't really see a use for poly anywhere. Others disagree of course.
                          Best of luck with the rubber bushes, most replacement rubber products have a lifespan of months rather than years

                          The only trouble I have had with Poly bushes was from a cheap kit bought from a show. After about 3 or 4 years and less than 1000 miles per year on my Triumph Estate, the rear bushes were knackered as they only used mild steel crush tubes. The tubes had corroded and tore the bushes to shreds.

                          Now I make sure I only use quality products with stainless crush tubes
                          Neil
                          TV8, efi, fast road cams and home built manifolds. 246bhp 220lbft torque

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                            #28
                            When I read the threads about Stag suspension tuning I must admit that two things come to mind:

                            a) I'm full of admiration of those that go the extra mile and get their Stags sorted for circuit or hill-climb racing - great stuff!

                            b) It seems my Stag is blessed with having the rear geometry pretty much spot on. I have Rilsan driveshafts and Poly bushes (IIRC I bought them direct from Superflex) and have done no other "tuning" whatsoever. However, even in this state I'm completely astounded at the handling of the Stag on the road, winding lanes, fast Autobahns (and Autobahn slip roads!), braking, and all the rest. I don't overdo it nowadays, but the other cars I've had in parallel to the Stag are a Group 1 Escort, an F348gts and an Aston Martin Vantage and IMHO the standard Stag has nothing to be ashamed of in the handling department (and a few other departments too!)

                            Drew
                            If you can't say something nice, don't say it !

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by tvrgeek View Post
                              Guess I got it half right. All new rubber, but have the CV axles. I actually don't like poly in a street car. Too stiff and too much of a maintenance issue. Of course, not stiff enough for race so I don't really see a use for poly anywhere. Others disagree of course.
                              Modern poly bushes come in various harnesses from race to soft road. 25 years ago I converted my first Stag to poly everywhere except the large subframe bushes and it was very comfortable. My current Stag was already fitted with the same bushes when I bought it in 2008 and I’ve done over 40,000 miles since then and find it too is very compliant and comfortable. Fit the correct ones (usually dark blue) and you won’t regret it.
                              Dave
                              1974 Mk2, ZF Auto, 3.45 Diff, Datsun Driveshafts. Stag owner/maintainer since 1989.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by DJT View Post

                                Modern poly bushes come in various harnesses from race to soft road. 25 years ago I converted my first Stag to poly everywhere except the large subframe bushes and it was very comfortable. My current Stag was already fitted with the same bushes when I bought it in 2008 and I’ve done over 40,000 miles since then and find it too is very compliant and comfortable. Fit the correct ones (usually dark blue) and you won’t regret it.
                                indeed, my stag has been proper Polybush since the late 90s iirc, the only parts not poly are the front strut tops, the rear subframe ends (which are OE to the car and still not sagging) and the rear dampers.

                                Since I did my stag Polybush https://www.polybush.co.uk/ strongly recommended

                                Have bought out different grades, I always use blue on my Range Rover products, as soft as rubber but lasts infinitely longer.

                                My first stag had a horrendous twitch, current stag does not, I can even control a lift off oversteer if I am feeling particularly hooliganish. Good splines without notches and ridges and a regular lube seems to be the answer on top of polybushing the trailing arms of course
                                Stags and Range Rover Classics - I must be a loony

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